Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/21/1994 09:01 AM Senate CRA
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SENATE COMMUNITY & REGIONAL AFFAIRS
April 21, 1994
9:01 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Randy Phillips, Chairman
Senator Robin Taylor, Vice Chairman
Senator Loren Leman
Senator Al Adams
MEMBERS ABSENT
Senator Fred Zharoff
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 543(STA)
"An Act relating to unvented gas space heaters in residential
buildings."
HOUSE BILL NO. 259 (title am)
"An Act relating to general grant land entitlements for the Lake
and Peninsula Borough; and providing for an effective date."
SENATE BILL NO. 375
"An Act relating to general grant land entitlements."
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION
HB 543 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes
dated 4/19/94.
HB 259 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes
dated 4/19/94.
SB 375 - See Community & Regional Affairs minutes dated 4/19/94.
WITNESS REGISTER
ACTION NARRATIVE
Jack McGary, State Fire Marshall
Division of Fire Prevention
Department of Public Safety
5700 E. Tudor Road
Anchorage, AK 99507-1225
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 543
Steve O'Connor, Assistant Chief
Central Emergency Services
231 S. Binkley St.
Soldotna, AK 99669
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 543
Keith Kettler
Kettler, Enterprises
Longmont, Colorado
Phone No. (303) 772-2430
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 543
Ron Smith, Chairman, Direct Heating Division
Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association
Kentucky
Phone No. (502) 745-7858
Joe Mattingly, Director of Government Affairs
Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association
Arlington, VA
Phone No. (703) 525-9565
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 543
Robert Maxwell, Executive Director
Interior Weatherization
713 15th Ave.
Fairbanks, AK 99701
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 543
Sue Walker, Chairperson
Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association
Arlington, VA
Phone No. (502) 754-7858
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 543
Burgain Maeler
Tennessee
Phone No. (615) 479-2842
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 543
Mike Dolph, Alaska Fire Chiefs Association
811 Will St.
Kodiak, AK 99615
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 543
Bill Halterman
Suburban Propane
1200 Whitney Road
Anchorage, AK 99501
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 543
Lee Holmes
2522 Arctic Blvd., #200
Anchorage, AK 99503
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 543
Geoff Feiler
Heat Loss Analysis
4128 Wright St.
Anchorage, AK 99508
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 543
Richard Barnes, President
Enstar Natural Gas Company
401 E. International Airport Road
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 543
Jim Murphy, Executive Director
American Lung Association of Alaska
555 W. Northern Lights Blvd.
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 543
Jeff Parker
Anchorage Fish & Game Advisory Board
1201 Hyder
Anchorage, AK 99507
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 259
Mark Lacrosse
Lake & Peninsula Borough Planning Commission
Egegik, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 259
Walt Reede, Manager
Lake & Peninsula Borough
King Salmon, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 259
Alice Ruby
Bristol Bay CSA Board
Dillingham, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 259
Ginger Tornes
P.O. Box 2497
Homer, AK 99603
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 259
Mark Bell
P.O. Box 486
Soldotna, AK 99669
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 259
Chris Goll
4127 Raspberry Road
Anchorage, AK 99502
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 259
Ray Peterson
4720 Sportsman Drive
Anchorage, AK 99502
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 259
Angie Gerken
P.O. Box 228
Iliamna, AK 99606
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 259
Fred Nishimura
Box 1309
Dillingham, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes HB 259
Lamar Cotten
Lake & Peninsula Borough
P.O. Box 495
King Salmon, AK 99613
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information in support of HB 259
Tom Green, Chairman
Lake & Peninsula Borough Planning Commission
P.O. Box 495
King Salmon, AK 99613
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 259
Senator Al Adams
State Capitol
Juneau, AK 99801-1182
POSITION STATEMENT: Offered information on SB 375
Keith Quintavell
North Slope Borough
P.O. Box 69
Barrow, AK 99723
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports SB 375
TAPE 94-31, SIDE A
Number 001
The Senate Community & Regional Affairs Committee was called to
order by Chairman Randy Phillips at 9:01 a.m. He brought CSHB 543
(STA) (UNVENTED GAS HEATERS IN RESIDENTIAL BLDGS) before the
committee as the first order of business, and opened the hearing to
testimony over the teleconference network.
Number 055
JACK MCGARY, State Fire Marshall, Division of Fire Prevention,
Department of Public Safety, Anchorage, said when the legislation
was originally introduced, the department did not take a position
on it, however, after a lot of research on the bill, he has changed
his position and he does not want to see the state code that
affects major residential facilities changed. There is a lot of
concern about the manufacturer's instructions requiring the
combustion air of 15 square inches being made available so that
this heater will get its proper oxygen. In the extreme cold areas,
he does not see this happening, so the fire and safety and,
primarily, the health concerns for Alaska, where construction is
very tight to try to keep cold weather out, is of major concern to
him.
Number 095
STEVE O'CONNOR, Assistant Chief, Central Emergency Services,
Soldotna, stated concern that the legislation presents a large
fire/life safety issue. He questioned why the product is safe
enough for single family dwellings, but not safe enough for use in
four-plexes or better. He added that he shares the fire marshall's
concerns about the types of construction and the lack of combustion
air space around the unvented heater. He also is concerned about
the affect of carbon monoxide, particularly on young children and
senior citizens. He urged the defeat the legislation.
Number 130
KEITH KETTLER, Kettler Enterprises, Longmont, Colorado, said he has
heard the concerns, but he has not heard any data or any evidence
to support any of it.
Number 140
RON SMITH, Design Engineer and Chairman of the Direct Heating
Division of the Gas Appliance Manufacturers' Association (GAMA),
testifying from Virginia, said they meet the same requirements as
all vented room heaters and other types of appliances. They also
adopt the requirement as other gas appliances as far as the
adequate combustion for any gas appliance. He pointed out that the
appliance has a Oxygen Depletion Sensing (ODS) System, and if low
levels of oxygen are present in the proximity of the ODS system,
the flame extinguishes. If the appliance is tampered with, it has
a tendency to shut off on a nuisance condition. Also, the
appliance, as far as its safety, would not be any different in its
use in multiple family dwellings and apartments as it would be for
a single family dwelling.
Number 200
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if in the history of sales and use of this
device, has there ever been a fatality, and RON SMITH responded
that there has not.
Number 250
JOSEPH MATTINGLY, Director of Government Affairs and General
Counsel, GAMA Headquarters, testifying from Arlington, Virginia,
stated the safety for the vent-free room heaters has been
excellent, and they do not know of any deaths caused by a ODS
equipped vent-free room heater. There experience has been that the
safety record of the vent-free product is superior to that of the
vented product.
Number 267
ROBERT MAXWELL, Executive Director, Interior Weatherization,
Fairbanks, said he has done air tightness testing on over 3,000
dwellings all across the State of Alaska, and the air tightness of
dwellings in Alaska, even low income dwellings and poorly
constructed dwellings, is much higher than dwellings in the Lower
48. He pointed out that carbon monoxide is the number one cause of
poisoning in the United States, and Alaska has the highest per
capita death rate in the nation. Many of the poisoning deaths in
Alaska can be traced to the use of gas appliances to heat the home
during cold weather. He urged the defeat of HB 543.
Number 333
SUE WALKER, Chairperson, Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association,
testifying from Arlington, Virginia, said that since 1980 there
have been approximately 2.8 million vent-free gas heaters sold and
installed in homes in the United States and there are no documented
deaths due to CO poisoning associated with the use of an ODS system
appliance. She added that it is very much a fail safe device and,
at this time, 43 of 50 states permit the installation of vent-free
heaters. The real key in the use of vent-free heaters is proper
installation and adhering to combustion air requirements, and the
National Fuel Gas Code is very specific on how much combustion air
is required for all gas appliances.
Number 395
SENATOR LEMAN asked how many states have adopted the Uniform
Mechanical Code. SUE WALKER answered that only a few states have
adopted a Uniform Mechanical Code, primarily states west of the
Rockies. It is her understanding that most states adopt a primary
code and then make all sorts of exceptions and adaptations that
take into a lot of special considerations of their environment,
building practices, etc.
Number 434
KEITH KETTLER agreed that there are several states where various
municipalities and counties in the state have made an exception to
the code on an individual basis to allow ODS equipped vent-free
appliances. In Alaska, the Municipality of Anchorage and the City
of Kenai have provided an exception to the Uniform Mechanical Code
to allow the installation of the product. He expressed his
surprise that the state with the highest per capita fatality rate
from carbon monoxide would not pass a bill to allow a product that
has a perfect safety record.
Number 460
BURGAIN MAELER, representing a company in Tennessee that invented
and manufactures the Oxygen Depletion Sensing System, stated that
they have well over 12 million of them that have been produced and
no reports back to them of any deaths attributable to the ODS. The
system is designed so that it is a fail safe system. They have
seen no problems or issues where the safety of the system has been
circumvented.
Number 475
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if in light of the high number of fatalities
in Alaska and the testimony before the committee that those are
often caused by gas ranges being inappropriately used, would he
recommend that the Alaska Legislature mandate that ODS devices be
installed on every gas range in the state. BURGAIN MAELER agreed
that it would be a good idea.
Number 485
MIKE DOLPH, Alaska Fire Chiefs Association, Anchorage, said the
association believes there is a substantial threat to carbon
monoxide poisoning with the use of these appliances, because they
will not be properly installed and will not be properly used in
accordance with the recommendation of the manufactures. He said
the Alaska Fire Chiefs Association would like to go on record with
unanimous strong opposition to the passage of HB 543.
Number 546
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if the Alaska Fire Chiefs Association supports
the installation of ODS devices on gas appliances in Alaska. MIKE
DOLPH replied that he does not think the association has taken a
particular stand on the issue.
Number 549
BILL HALTERMAN, Suburban Propane, Anchorage, stated his main
concern is that the units will be installed ignoring the
manufacturer's requirements for free air. He believes that they
will be used in small bush cabins where they will be competing for
available oxygen. Also, he believes the ODS can be defeated and
they will become a hazard.
Mr. Halterman informed the committee that the Municipality of
Anchorage has approved only one type of gas appliance with an ODS
and that is for a decorative fireplace.
Number 586
LEE HOLMES, a registered mechanical engineer testifying from
Anchorage, said witnesses from GAMA have stated that the key is a
proper installation and combustion air requirement. He has visited
over 2,000 homes throughout rural Alaska, and he said he can
guarantee that there is not a proper combustion air requirement in
one percent of those houses.
TAPE 92-31, SIDE B
Number 012
Mr. Holmes said there is a proper procedure for amending the codes,
and the manufacturers association would be better of spending their
time addressing the Uniform Mechanical Code and should have been
talking to the state fire marshall a year ago before the state
amendments to the Uniform Mechanical Code were adopted.
Number 048
GEOFF FEILER, representing Heat Loss Analysis in Anchorage, a
business that conducts energy audits in the State of Alaska,
responded to inquiries made by Senator Taylor as to the extent of
use of gas refrigerators, gas stoves and gas dryers in residences.
He said in all of the homes their company has inspected, he has
never seen a gas refrigerator. Most gas stoves require that there
be a range hood over them that vents to outside, and the same holds
true for gas dryers. He voiced his opposition to the use of
unvented gas appliances in homes.
He disagreed with a previous speaker's comments that there are very
few of these unvented heaters installed on an unprofessional basis
compared to vented heaters. He said the vented heaters take more
expertise for installation.
Mr. Feiler related that their company regularly tests homes that
have only about 100 CFM natural air leakage, and this is fairly
common, especially in new construction. With a 10,000 Btu unvented
space heater, there would have to be 500 CFM according to the
requirement of 50 CFM per thousand Btu, so most of the homes they
test would not have the natural air leakage required to do this.
Number 155
RON SMITH commented that if the proper ventilation or combustion
air is not provided, the ODS is the safety device on the appliance
to counter that particular condition and will shut the unit off.
Number 190
KEITH KETTLER, responding to the concern of outside combustion air
being blocked off, said the simple fact is that with a vented
product, if there is not adequate combustion air because somebody
has it blocked off, it causes a negative pressure in a house which
causes spillage which means the chimneys don't work and that is how
people end up with carbon monoxide poisoning. With a vent-free
appliance, if that were to happen to the unlikely degree that
oxygen were to be depleted at 18 percent, the ODS would simply shut
off the gas appliance and there would not be a fatality.
Mr. Kettler also pointed out that a specific in the ANSI standard
is that there cannot be any adjustment to the ODS system in an
appliance. He further pointed out that the combustion air
requirements on gas-fuel appliances are in Chapter 6 of the Uniform
Mechanical Code, and it is very clear it requires 50 cubic feet of
free air space per thousand Btu per hour.
SUE WALKER added that GAMA has sent to the committee an extensive
table of how combustion air can be calculated, and she clarified
that with regard to vent-free heaters, they are not necessarily
talking about creating any sort of opening that brings in fresh
air. If there is adequate volume of space in the room or the rooms
to be heated, then no outside air source needs to be created.
Number 315
LEE HOLMES clarified that he is on the Municipality of Anchorage's
Uniform Mechanical Code Amendment Committee, and that committee did
allow decorative fireplaces with the ODS to be installed in the
municipality. The unvented heaters being discussed are not allowed
in the Municipality of Anchorage.
Number 385
RICHARD BARNES, President of Enstar Natural Gas Company, testifying
in Juneau, stated that if HB 543 passes, Enstar, along with the
propane distributors, would probably pick up some additional
revenues that they otherwise wouldn't get, and they welcome new
business, but safety to them is an overriding concern. They spend
a lot of money each year trying to prevent carbon monoxide deaths.
Mr. Barnes outlined the following objections to vent-free
appliances:
(1) Relying on inside ventilation is not realistic.
(2) The safety device that shuts the heater off when oxygen
is depleted does not shut it off if carbon monoxide is produced.
(3) The heater, if it passes the ANSI standard, would be
nearly six times the amount that OSHA says there should be for
maximum allowable concentration.
Mr. Barnes also demonstrated to the committee how a oxygen
depletion sensor device could easily be impaired with a simple
paper clip.
Number 586
JIM MURPHY, Executive Director, American Lung Association of
Alaska, stated that with Alaska having the highest per capita death
from CO, they are very concerned about the fact that there will be
more CO indoors. The serious problem they have is that people
don't follow directions, they don't pay attention - when it's cold
they try to get warm. Also, the ODS is not a CO detector and does
not respond specifically to carbon monoxide. Further, directions
on the devices that he has researched so far talk about the need
for a yearly cleaning by a certified person, and the reality in
Alaska is that it is not going to happen. Concluding his comments,
he said he thinks these appliances do have a place, but they don't
belong in Alaska.
Number 675
JOSEPH EASAW, staff to Representative Al Vezey, stated deaths
related to vented gas heaters and appliances can be documented with
statistics and facts, and it cannot be documented against the
devices being addressed in HB 543.
TAPE 94-32, SIDE A
Number 001
Mr. Easaw continued to respond to various issues brought up by
witnesses testifying in opposition to HB 543.
Number 086
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS closed the public hearing and stated CSHB
543(STA) would be held in committee.
Number 090
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS brought HB 259(title am) (LAND GRANT FOR
LAKE & PENINSULA BOROUGH) before the committee as the next order of
business, stating that testimony would be taken over the
Legislative Teleconference Network.
Number 100
JEFF PARKER, representing the Anchorage Fish & Game Advisory
Committee, Alaska Sport Fishing Association and Trout Unlimited,
said the question of what lands should be retained for the public
is the first issue that should be decided. He directed attention
to a petition containing over 430 signatures, an economic study by
the Hotel-Motel Association, the Alaska Professional Sport Fishing
Association and the Alaska Sport Fishing Association and various
other pieces of data which he had forwarded to the committee. He
said the borough has no data to support its argument that it is
feasible, economic, or practicable to introduce expansion of large
industry in this region, and all this data indicates otherwise. He
urged the legislation not be moved out of committee.
Number 195
MARK LACROSSE, a member of the Lake & Peninsula Borough Assembly
and Planning Commission, said there is a perception that the land
selection has not involved an intensive public process, when, in
fact, borough land selection has been two years in the making and
public notices have been issued and posted in all of the
communities. In these land selections, it is their desire to
ensure the economic viability of the borough as state dollars
continue to shrink. He noted that they have added the Bristol Bay
Coastal Management Plan in the makeup of their own coastal
management plan.
Number 226
WALT REEDE, Manager of the Lake & Peninsula Borough, echoed the
previous speaker's comments. He said he knows there has been a
fair amount of opposition to HB 253, but they are working with Fish
& Game, DNR and some of the villages in trying to work out some of
the problems that people perceive with the bill. He offered his
assurance that the people in the borough are very sensitive to
habitat values in the region and have no intention of doing
anything that would jeopardize those resources.
Number 252
ALICE RUBY, testifying on behalf of the Bristol Bay CSA Board,
reiterated her previous testimony on HB 253 that people in the
region had virtually no opportunity to find out about the bill and
its implications. The legislation will have a major affect on
their area, and they believe the Legislature needs to consider the
bigger picture of what this legislation means, particularly its
effect on the commercial fisheries, subsistence and recreational
activities. Concluding her comments, she urged the committee delay
its action until next session.
Number 303
GINGER TORNES, a commercial fisherman in the Bristol Bay area,
stated the grant of 187,000 acres is more than 16 times the amount
of land the borough is entitled to under current state law, and she
expressed her concern that it would set a dangerous precedent. She
is concerned that much of land that has been identified is
important wildlife and recreation land. She does not believe that
the Lake & Peninsula Borough needs to increase their tax base. She
urged defeat of HB 259.
Number 335
MARK BELL, a resident of Soldotna, voiced his opposition to HB 259
and urged more input by the agencies involved and by the public.
He said the area does not need more lodges and public access which
would put additional pressure on their resources.
Number 360
CHRIS GOLL, a twenty-eight year Alaska resident residing at Rainbow
River Lodge located near Iliamna and a former two-term member of
the Alaska Board of Fisheries, voiced his opposition to HB 259.
The fisheries resources, as well as the wildlife resources that
exist in the area are already totally utilized by the Alaska
peninsula users, the subsistence users and the commercial
businesses that exist there. Speaking to the priority subsistence
issue, he said the federal government has indicated, through Judge
Holland, that they are going to be taking over management of
subsistence out there and will be utilizing the resident stocks, as
well as the anadromous stocks, thereby further complicating the
problem.
Number 404
RAY PETERSON of Anchorage voiced his opposition to HB 259. He
noted he has contacted many of the Alaskan operators of sport
fishing operations that use these lands in question, and they are
unanimously opposed to the land grant. He expressed his concern on
whether the borough can be trusted to maintain the free and open
access that the residents of the area now enjoy. He asserted the
only people in favor of HB 259 are the ones who run the borough.
Number 425
ANGIE GERKEN of Homer stated her support for Mr. Goll's and Mr.
Peterson' comments. She said she does not want to see the state
make a short-term decision that will be a detriment to all Alaskans
and will have little benefit for the villages in that area. She
urged the legislation be held in committee.
Number 465
FRED NISHIMURA of Dillingham, informed the committee that he is the
manager of three village corporations in the Nushagak Bay drainage
that are also involved in a lawsuit with the Lake & Peninsula
Borough and the Local Boundary Commission over the drawing of the
northwest boundary. He said these villages are very concerned
about HB 259, because it disregards the concerns that people have
who live outside of the LPB boundary; concerns such as their
lifestyles, their own lands, their use of the land and resources.
They believe the bill exemplifies natural resource management at
its worst and that it should not be passed.
Number 506
LAMAR COTTEN, representing the Lake & Peninsula Borough, said the
borough has held over 20 meetings on the land grant issue, and they
have documentation showing that public notice was given for those
meetings. In addition, all residents received at least three
newsletters concerning this issue, along with a series of other
reports that went to interested parties. He also said the Lake &
Peninsula Borough has no interest in obtaining or proposing lands
in the disputed area until that issue has been resolved by the
court. The borough has worked with DNR and Fish and Game and
explained that they have no problem with access. He pointed out
these are proposed selections, and they still need to go through a
series of public hearings and a public hearing process working with
DNR.
Number 533
TOM GREEN, Chairman of the Planning Commission for the Lake and
Peninsula Borough, agreed with Mr. Cotten's comments on the
meetings held by the borough. He said the bill only allows the
borough an entitlement and does not allow them any lands they have
specified. They have backed away from obtaining land in the areas
of the Mulchatna, the Nushiak, and the northwest boundaries.
Number 567
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS closed the public hearing on HB 259, stating
that it would be back before the committee at its next meeting.
Number 570
SENATOR AL ADAMS expressed his appreciation to the chairman of the
Senate Judiciary Committee for introducing SB 375.
The basic premise of SB 375 is that municipal ownership of up to 10
percent of the state lands within the municipal boundaries, when it
is available, would promote strong government as provided in
Alaska's Constitution, would provide municipalities with the
opportunity to stimulate their economic development, could
potentially increase tax revenue through an expanded tax base and
an overall improved ability to provide quality public services. By
retaining ownership to 90 percent of the state land within
municipal boundaries, the state retains the ability to provide for
statewide public interests.
The bill sections with most importance are Sections 8 and 10.
Section 8 deletes the words "newly formed" from the policy
statement regarding the 10 percent designation so that the policy
applies across the board to all municipalities. Section 10 changes
the designation of VUU land so that it would include land that had
been classified as unobtainable for municipal selection.
Senator Adams said he believes the legislation is particularly
timely considering the present proposals by the Governor and
certain members of the Alaska Legislature to decrease municipal
assistance and revenue sharing. Increasing the land base available
to municipalities would offset the negative effects of diminishing
the revenue stream flowing from the state to the local governments.
Senator Adams noted that the legislation is supported by the Alaska
Municipal League.
TAPE 94-32, SIDE B
Number 001
KEITH QUINTAVELL, representing the North Slope Borough, said their
is conflict in the statutes relating to land areas available to
municipalities to fulfill their land entitlements. He added that
he doesn't know if the Legislature anticipated that when planning
to give municipalities 10 percent of the state land within their
boundaries some boroughs would get actually less than 1 percent of
the land within their boundaries. Section 10 of SB 375 would allow
boroughs to get their 10 percent instead of a much smaller amount.
Mr. Quintavell said if the state can no longer give municipalities
funding, which is in short supply, perhaps they can give them land
so that they can use that land to make money and pay for their own
municipal public services. The land will still be public land, and
the public will still be able to use most of it.
Number 054
SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS closed the hearing on SB 375, stating it
would back before the committee at its next meeting.
There being no further business to come before the committee, the
meeting was adjourned at 11:32 a.m.
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